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Let’s think about the upcoming Veteran’s day, shall we?
Posted by site admin | Posted in General | Posted on 03-11-2007
During the Nazi Nuremberg trials, the defense of “simply following orders” was clearly proven invalid. Given the blatantly illegal nature of the Iraq war, what possible grounds are there for supporting the people who are today, just like the Nazis, “simply following orders” ?
It is time to end the charade. Let us be blunt in accepting a very basic fact — the American troops carrying out illegal orders in Iraq today could (and ought) be tried for war crimes by the international legal system. To simply call someone with a gun a ‘victim of ignorance’ is to spit in the face of international law and basic notions of justice. It isn’t just the leaders that are criminal, but also the people who willingly choose to carry out those orders — whether out of agreement or ignorance. Claiming to simply follow orders is NOT an excuse for committing genocide.
If you want to support a soldier this veteran’s day, how about supporting the true American patriots, the soldiers who are engaged in active refusal of orders. And perhaps the Palestinians, the Afghanis, the Iraqis who are actively engaged in fighting for their freedom against the American onslaught also deserve support more so than those who are engaged in blatant terror against them. After all, who is the terrorist – the guy fighting to protect his home and his country, or the one who aiming to destroy it?
Veterans day, as celebrated in the United States, is one of the most macabre Orwellian holidays that could ever have been invented. Maybe it is worth stopping to think what we’re celebrating and honoring — mass genocides, mass murder, and all the tremendous suffering our armed terrorist forces have inflicted on so many nations in so many places?
Regardless history will, no doubt, judge harshly those who supported these criminal wars. Claiming to simply “be following orders” will not be accepted any more a legitimate defense for the American soldiers than it was for the German ones.
The time has come for some real truth telling. Enough is enough.
You are more ignorant than anyone I have ever met, military or civilian. To throw those names around, just shows how out of touch you are. I dare you to spend one day doing what these brave people do, and I am not talking about war (I strongly oppose the war too).
My husband is a rescue helicopter pilot, and he flies in horrendous conditions to save the lives of others ie: boaters, accident victims, flood victims (Katrina ring a bell?). That is what he signed up for joining the Air Nat’l Guard. Unfortunately, the Bush administration chooses to send the Air Guard instead overseas, leaving us here unprotected in the event of disaster. Now, my husband goes overseas and picks up 19 year old kids with their legs blown off, as well as civilian children. He could have gotten out, but he felt an allegience to those who need his help overseas.
The war is the biggest catastrophy I have ever experienced, and I am trying to do my small part for one victim of it, the soldiers who joined for honorable reasons and are not taken care of by the government. I do also greatly respect those who stand up against the military, because that takes guts too. Your blatant disrespect and generalizations make me sick, and make me think you are the weakest man I’ve ever come across. Leave this country, if you can’t show respect for those who serve to protect it. Take your anger out on those who deserve it, those that start the wars.
Hello Carrie,
If your husband is serving in Iraq, he could very well be tried as a criminal. Simply following orders is not a defense that an international human rights court will recognize. He is helping an illegal, immoral war — and the day will hopefully come when we will have a Nuremberg tribunal for this one too. For his sake and yours, I do hope he doesn’t end up with a lengthy jail sentence as a result of his idealism when that day comes.
There are no honorable reasons to join the military. All that honor bullshit is sold by the government to get people to enlist, but when one objectively looks at the whole military-industrial complex those reasons all quickly turn out to be lies.
The US military is involved in an illegal occupation of a foreign country. Your husband is an accessory to that occupation, which is blatantly illegal. Get that straight. You can’t oppose the war and support the troops, at least not if you
understand the war to be illegal. Which puts you in a very tough place, one I do sincerely understand, but feelings and emotions do not change circumstances or legal facts.
The war will not stop until the soldiers start refusing to fight. The only way they will refuse to fight is when they see that the civilian population does not support them. This is why it is so critical to work to undermine that support — if you truly want the war to stop. It is truly that simple.
I am sorry that your family finds itself on the wrong side of a bloody war. But make no mistake about it — it is the wrong side. Unfortunately history also shows the US has rarely, if ever, been on the right side of any war though.
He has only served in Kuwait and Afghanistan, but you are a complete asshole for calling him a war criminal. I invite you to say it to his face.
Carrie,
This isn’t a judgment; it is a fact. If the war is illegal, the soldiers supporting it are criminals.
If your partner is serving in support of the Iraq war, and the war is illegal, he could (and ought to be) tried for war crimes.
This is very simple. Following orders isn’t a legal defense, as shown by the Nuremberg trials.
I don’t think you quite got the right end of the stick with what happpened at Nuremberg.
the people that were charged were the most senior people of the Nazi regieme and they were charged with geneocide. There is a lot more context that went into the judgement that “following orders” isn’t justification for partcipating in genocide.
Whatever you think of the Iraq war it is somewhat different than what the Nazis were trying to do. If you can’t make that distinction then I think the way this all plays out is going to be somewhat surprising to you.
For example, a helicopter pilot who hasn’t killed people who are in captivity and completely defenseless are not going to ever get convicted of war crimes.
In fact no soldier will be ever convicted unless somehow it can be shown they intentionally killed helpless people who posed no threat.
If there is legal blame to be laid for the Iraq war it will be done at the highest levels of the american goverment / military.
You are an unmitigated moron. I always wonder why people like you stay in this country if all you want to do is tear it down. I suppose because you’re holed up in a cushy San Francisco existence and you’re too comfortable to leave. I would so much rather have you take up real arms (instead of hiding behind a computer) against us so that one of us who actually believes in the good of our country and serves towards that end could put a round right through your sanctimonious brain.
And oh by the way, you’re welcome for protecting your right to spew the bullshit you do. No need to thank me, I really have no interest in hearing from you.